[Podcast] On the MIC with Drift, Lola.com and Notarize

True to our credo – “Innovation Inside Out” – March has launched a series of events called the March Innovators Collective (MIC). Our first event was held in early March (appropriate), and where EVP Jodi Petrie hosted a panel discussion with three Boston marketing luminaries: Jeanne Hopkins of Lola.com, Jessica Meher of Notarize, and Dave Gerhardt of Drift.

The conversation covered a lot of ground: what’s in the DNA of a good marketer? What marketing trends need to go away? How can brands build communities of loyal buyers? Jeanne, Jessica, and Dave give their expert answers, and in this episode, we present the live audio from the panel discussion. And, in a one-on-one conversation with Jodi, Dave shares one tip that came in handy when marketing his new book “Conversational Marketing,” which we think is great advice for marketing just about anything.

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Episode Transcript

Note that this is a machine-generated transcript and may include some errors.

Manny Veiga 0:00
Hacks and Flacks is brought to you by March Communications, an award winning integrated PR agency, with offices in Boston and Chicago. We help innovative tech companies bring their stories to life. To learn more about our agency or our show visit in March Comms dot com. But for now enjoy the show.

Welcome to Hacks and Flacks. I’m Manny Veiga. A few episodes back, we told you about the development of March’s, new messaging, our whole innovation inside out message. We explained some of the branding work that went into developing it, the motivation behind doing in the first place, and why it was so important for how we communicate to clients, to employees, to the industry as a whole, what we’re all about and what our mission is, as an agency. More recently, March has launched a series of live events that’s meant to bring the message to life. It’s called the march innovators collective, and it’s really meant to bring together colleagues, clients, people in our network, who are doing innovative things in communications and sharing some of their stories. So we just did the first one in early March at a cool venue. It was the Title Boxing Club here in Causeway Street. It’s a it’s a boxing and kickboxing gym in Boston. And on today’s episode, we’re going to present some of the audio from that event from that panel discussion. So what you’re about to hear is a panel discussion, it’s hosted by our own and Jodi Petri with three marketing luminaries here in the Boston area. We talked to Jeanne Hopkins, she’s CMO of Lola. com. Jessica Meher she is VP of Marketing at Notarize and Dave Gerhardt he is cmo at Drift and we ask them a few different questions, including what’s in the DNA of a good marketer, what are some of the trends in marketing that they wish would go away, and what do their CEOs or investors get wrong about marketing. So it’s a fun conversation. It covers a lot of ground and talk a lot about the importance of nurturing and growing a community of loyal customers. Something that each of these companies has really been able to excel at. So worthwhile discussion, and that one’s coming right up. But before we get into the full panel, the event actually kicked off with a one on one conversation between Jodi and Dave. So if you follow drift, if you know anything about Dave, you know, they’re having a big year, he just co authored the new book, conversational marketing, he wrote it with a CEO, David Cancel. And of course, it’s all about the drift message, their their perspective on conversational marketing, which is marketing, which is what they do. So Jodi asked Dave a lot of questions about how he marketed the book. And he had some great tips, including some that I thought would make sense if you’re trying to market anything, not just a book. So I wanted to share that clip here. This is Dave Gearhart of drift, answering the question how do you create a culture of authenticity so that everyone in your company, every single employee is capable of marketing your brand?

Dave Gerhardt 2:56
Well, number one is like, it’s almost a chicken in the egg thing we’re like, because we do that we have all these examples that I can then go show to the team you like, see what happens when we’re real people feel like, they know you, they, they know us, they. And so we have that to show them. Like, number one is the social proof of that. The other thing is just like, I care so much about internal marketing, and explaining why we do what we do. Like, I remember early days of drift, like we had something called we still do, it was just different. It’s called show and tell radical name. I know

every Friday at four o’clock, the whole company shuts down. And everybody shows what they worked on that week. And when I joined the company, there was like six people there. That was the only marketing person. And so I got to get up in front of five engineers and a designer and tell him about the blog post that I wrote this week, right? They’re going to be like, seriously, what do we pay this guy for? And so it was like, since that moment, I’ve cared so much about like, telling them, here’s why we did this. Here’s what we got from it. Here’s why this matters. Hey, this influential analyst tweeted about us today. And this means that this is going to happen. So I care a lot about like, explaining the why behind the what we’re doing marketing. I think a lot of marketers just have, we’re just arrogant. And we’re just like, oh, people, everybody gets marketing. Nobody gets marketing. Nobody gets marketing, right? And so everything we do we try to explain it, why we’re doing this, why are we doing that. And that creates this this culture of like, where people get what’s going on, and they want to contribute to it. And then they see how the overall marketing impacts the culture. And they also see how they all can contribute to it. And so what happens is, on a day, when we launch a new product, you have 300 people at drift, all posting about it and making videos because they all feel like marketing is my job at this company as well.

Manny Veiga 4:34
Okay, that’s a great point from Dave. And I think it really sets the stage for the conversation to come. So here’s that audio from the full panel discussion at the March, innovators collective. Again, our guests are Jeanne Hopkins of Lola. com Jessica Meher of Notarize and Dave Gerhardt of drift.

Jodi Petrie 5:03
Welcome to march communications and Title Boxing Club. Thank you for joining us at the march innovators collective. This is a series of events that we have launched so that we can live out the credo of March communications, which is essentially innovation inside out. So we are committed to being innovative in the work we do every day and sharing innovation with our colleagues and clients and people in our network. So this is an opportunity for us to do that with you today. Alright, so we added a couple of panelists to the ring. As you can see, we’re going to start here on the left Jeanne Hopkins, she’s the CMO at Lola.

Jeanne Hopkins 5:45
Lola.com I’m sorry but Lola.com, not the feminine products company. We are a software company what we get we got it all the time.

Jodi Petrie 5:56
But one of the best descriptors ever for those folks in PR Who are you know, working tirelessly to figure out descriptors making corporate travel travel more productive and less disruptive. So, I mean, sweet, short and simple, right? best story. So I met gene before Christmas. And just by way of background, she she was talking about one of her early jobs as a teenager, right?

Jeanne Hopkins 6:19
Picking tobacco. Yeah, I’m real proud of that. migrant worker.

Jodi Petrie 6:24
Yes, I think it’s super interesting,

Jeanne Hopkins 6:26
Volpe always brings that up, because it’s like one of those goofy fun facts about me. I grew up in the western Massachusetts and Wilbur ham, it’s exit seven off the mass Turnpike. Most people don’t know where it is. And at 14 years old, I was babysitting and they offered a job that you could go to work in the Connecticut Valley, which was like Southfield, Connecticut, Enfield, Connecticut, if anybody knows where that is, and there that’s where the tobacco field shape tobacco is grown. And that shade tobacco. Those leaves go around the Cuban cigars, so people that in Volpe is a cigar aficionado. So he’s fascinated with the fact that I used to like tie little strings around the thing for the shade tobacco and actually pick the tobacco in the tobacco Barnes and I made $600 as summer.

Unknown 7:13
Nice.

Jodi Petrie 7:14
Yeah. And I feel like there’s a lot of lessons in there that you took and that you’re using today.

Jeanne Hopkins 7:18
Yeah, to be I’m tall and I can reach top shelves.

Jodi Petrie 7:23
And the other thing that was in your bio that we uncovered somewhere was so at your first job. After graduating as an account you were to told you are too loud. Yeah,

Jeanne Hopkins 7:33
Mary. I wasn’t accounting mad. Mitch, stop it.

I was an accounting major in college. And my dad was the managing editor of the Springfield union news, which is in western at another city in western Massachusetts. You don’t know where that’s right. So Springfield union knows. And when I was going to go to college, I wanted to major in journalism. And my dad said, No, he was you get kind of sent reading the news all the time, it gets a little depressing. And he said, you’re always in too much of a good mood. You always think on the positive side, you need to stay like that. Find something else. So I applied for accounting. So I figured you always have to add things up. And so my first my first job was in a Bay State Medical Center and the accounting department and after one year, I was like doing so many things I had, I just kept super busy and Pam, who was the controller she brought me in to do my performance exam and she said, Jane, you’re doing a great job but you know, I really don’t have a career in accounting I’m looking at is very puzzled. Like things that up she said she just too loud,

just too loud. And that’s when I had to move. But you know, accounting is really worked out for me because you’ve got marketing budgets.

Jodi Petrie 8:48
All right. So I’m gonna ask you more about that in a minute. So just mere here on the left is VP of Marketing at Notarize the online notary platform. You all need one you at some point, you will all need one. Isn’t that true?

Jessica Meher 8:59
Yeah. Now, you don’t have to go to the bank or anywhere else. You can do it online 24 seven,

Jodi Petrie 9:03
and don’t trust FedEx. That’s the lesson I learned a couple of weeks ago from Jess. FedEx is not good for documents. Okay. Yeah.

Jessica Meher 9:09
And actually, fun fact, typically, somebody mortgage will be in the back of a FedEx truck because it’s still on paper. So we’re actually digitizing that whole process.

Jodi Petrie 9:17
Yeah. Genius. Right, right. notarized. com also an angel investor startup advisor also has been a HubSpot alum and within vision so and apparently the there’s a fun fact that Jessicas cat is on Instagram more than Jessica. So to follow her, apparently lots of cat

Jessica Meher 9:35
my cats are more social than I am which I’m really there. Simon and Sophie in there at fluffy verbals if you want to follow them.

Jodi Petrie 9:42
Yeah, fantastic. All right. Question for the for the group. I have had the opportunity to meet of your CEOs some more time with them some less time or investors, I haven’t met investors. But what do they get wrong about marketing? I mean they’re brilliant gentlemen, each of them, right? But what do they get wrong about marketing? Do you think do they get anything wrong?

Jeanne Hopkins 10:06
Well Mike Volpi is is Mike Volpi is the best marketer in Boston I’ve heard and, and all of New England and maybe even the galaxy So, so I think all of us are coming up second best, right. So, I don’t know I’m it’s it’s a hard thing he he’s had since bringing me on board, you know, I have to like give them the hairy eyeball every now and again. Because he goes off on a tear with all these great ideas. And it’s like, you know, you want to come back to marketing, you know, and and he doesn’t really good job. But it’s it’s been, you know, his elevation from cmo to CEO. And he’s very, very business focused. And I can see him literally like almost flinching when he’s when he wants to tell me something. And and so he tries super, super hard not to. But sometimes it just comes out right. And

Jodi Petrie 10:52
that make it easier or harder for you that he’s been a CMO, you know, so you know, the believer

Jeanne Hopkins 10:57
I joined the company because I worked for him at three. For three years at HubSpot, I think we have a good Yangyang relationship. I’m a good back office, kind of a person, he’s an introvert, I’m an extrovert, so it kind of works for us. And, you know, I don’t, I don’t bug him, and he doesn’t bug me. And that’s wonderful. Beautiful. It’s a beautiful relationship,

Jodi Petrie 11:19
you want to skip

Jessica Meher 11:22
way this is being recorded, right?

So pat, pat is great. He’s a product guy, but he gives me a lot of autonomy to do what I what I know how to do. And I love which is great. I think as somebody who talks to a lot of startups, I think it’s easy to forget how hard marketing really is. And especially when you’re crafting your brand, and your value prop. And how do you create a category around yourself, it takes a lot of experimentation and a lot of putting things out to market and trying things. It’s very easy to get distracted by some of the bells and whistles and seeing what other companies are doing and forget that you kind of need to stay your own truth. But, you know, I’m very fortunate that he understands the value is marketing. So I wouldn’t say anything else. Other than that

Dave Gerhardt 12:09
you restate the question? Okay. No, I’m just so so I worked for David and he

cut, edit, edit this part out, he’s really good at marketing. And, and I think, you know, a lot of people see like, with the stuff that we do at drift. And the number one question I get is like, how do you how do you get your boss to like, say, yes, then I say the only answer is he gets like, I’m lucky to work for founders who get marketing. And that makes a lot of what I do easy, right? Meaning like, I don’t have to justify silly things in marketing about why we’re going to do X or Y, we’re going to do why they get it. The other thing is like, he pushes me on a lot of things because he gets it. And it’s almost like, a lot of times I experiment, like, it’s kind of like that. The frustrating like, lecture from a teacher or a parent, where you’re like, damn it, he’s right. And that’s a good idea. And I’m gonna have to go blow my plan and go do it. And so I think it’s good. But but I think we have a good relationship. I mean, I’ve been there for three and a half years now. And so it’s a lot of trust. You know, marketing has to be about trust. If you have a relationship with the CEO, we’re like, everything you do has to be justified, that that’s going to be tough

Jodi Petrie 13:17
question for all of you. What do you think? What’s the biggest challenge facing marketers today, you go in, you know, it’s art and science. And it’s constant proving and constant testing and learning, it’s always changing, can pin it down? Is that the biggest challenge? Or what do you think is the biggest challenge in marketing today? I think

Dave Gerhardt 13:31
the biggest challenge today is there is not one clear playbook, like there’s too many there, there are 15 different ways to win as a marketer. And so I think that you have to, the biggest thing that I’m trying to trying to push for is like to bring creativity back to marketing a little bit. I think the last decade has been amazing, because marketing automation has made things like very easy to measure and track. And trust me, that stuff is very important. But I think what we’ve lost is like the majority of marketers say, just do this cookie cutter approach, BECAUSE JEAN or myself, or just said something on a panel, they go back to their business, they plug it in, and they’re like, marketing sucks, it doesn’t work. We’re like, I think we need to bring creativity back a little bit. And think about, like, marketing is about, you know, is about the the art of it a little bit. And I think that the challenge is, most people have forgotten that a little bit. Yeah,

Jessica Meher 14:22
yeah. And not just skip ahead to some of your questions. But when you talk about what are the trends that we look excited for, I actually like the and the trend, the anti trend, which is a little bit meta, but it’s a little bit of like, not getting distracted about what somebody says, is the hot new trend to do. But I think seeing the trend that a lot more marketers are starting to say, I’m unique, and that’s okay. And I want to build something that’s original and special. And I’m starting to see companies, you know, like Lola draft are doing that more. And I think that’s something that, you know, I’m particularly excited about,

Jeanne Hopkins 14:54
well, I’m going to disagree, just because the panelists can be aboard, right? We want to be bored. So I think that most, most marketers forget that there’s three different for different levels. Let’s talk about it, that many marketers in their company completely forget about the employees, they forget that your employees are your most important asset. They don’t communicate effectively with their employees, they don’t keep their employees and the know, couple of people know this couple of people, then you hear that I didn’t know we were doing this, and why minute, a minute, right. So you want to keep your employees firmly engaged. And that’s part of your culture. The next one is talking about customers, this is the next outer layer talking about your customers. I do not know very many marketers that concentrate on customer marketing, they kind of think about it like, oh, we’re churning. And we need to, like, bring in customer success. We need to do this. Well, customer success, can’t do anything without customer marketing. And then the next one is really prospects. A lot of marketers are constantly trying to bring in prospects you’re bringing in how many people have have a loyalty card, and they they go to an ice cream shop and town and they get their card punched, or whatever. And then you get an email from this, this ice cream place is 25% off for your ice cream. But only for first time people? Well, what about your loyal your loyal person, so it’s not about the prospects, you really should be concentrating on your customers and your employees. And the last is the community. So at HubSpot, we had at any given time, you know, 50,000 net new leads per month, you know, re converts everything. But if you look at 50,000 leads, it would only transfer to about 250 to 300 customers per month. And that’s why there were so many people that would share that content. That was the community so its employees, customers, prospects and the community. And if you look at what Dave is talking about, it says community that is really given. It’s the people that are following you, and sharing and sending pictures. They may not be a customer today, but they might be a customer in a year or two. And building that community is all about having your employees share 300 employees for you. So I had a company meeting today and talking about, Okay, guys, we really need you to dig deep, I need you to I did this whole video on like, how do you go through your LinkedIn profile to figure out like, who you’re who can fuel you might contact in order to have a demo of the product and you get like, these big like, deer in the headlights stares at you. But in reality, that’s what it’s all about. It’s about your employees firmly engaging to support your customers that so people want to be prospects. And then you have the fan girls and fanboys that want to be able to share your content. And that’s what I think is more important. I’d love to hear more

Dave Gerhardt 17:36
what gene just alluded to those The most important thing if you’re if you’re a marketer, and you can’t sell like you if you’re trying to convince your company to sell, but you haven’t done that on your own, like there’s a mismatch. And so I think the biggest piece of that is also empathy. most marketers don’t have empathy for the rest of the company. Like it’s easy to stand up in front of a room as a marketer and say, all right, sales Why are you not follow up with these leads are why you’re not doing this thing. And there’s like, we actually do don’t have no idea what I actually do and how I do this

Jodi Petrie 18:03
gene. You mentioned something. You know, in NPR, we often hear clients talk about community and we want we need to build community we need to go looking for the community as if it’s suddenly going to appear out of nowhere. And so you’re going to put out a tweet or a piece of content. That meeting is going to come flocking, talk to us a little bit about nurturing community and get pulling people close to you so that you can start to build that community. You think it starts internally first with your

Jeanne Hopkins 18:26
employees? Absolutely. And I think that at HubSpot as an example there was just a vast community of maybe 700,000 people that would take every piece of content and amplified across their networks. So the bars or the agencies or content people that just thought this was a great idea to be able to share it and be able to look smart. I remember when Pinterest for first came out. So this was around 2012 ish or so. And I was insistent that we needed to do an E book on that. Well, the sales people hated it, because it was 95% women. And they’re like, what the heck is Pinterest? What’s Pinterest? And we were getting so many downloads of the Pinterest ebook, because everybody wanted to know, how do I make Pinterest work for me. And it’s a it’s a building community. I’m going to use an example from Ipswich it’s it switches a 27 year old software company on premises software company for network management, and then secure file transfer. All right, so it’s it’s the customers that the biggest customer is the Navy so they had for the what’s up gold product, they had a community that got a million visits per year a million visits, it was called what’s up gold space, totally original, but they had a very good community manager and that community was they were all these customers were sharing all these scripts and everything with each other and then three years ago the IT team became responsible as a responsible you know, drive responsibly is they decided that they were just going to kill the community kilo just get rid of the domain and and and I do this thing on customer success. And I have this like little picture of the post it note that says, we’ve moved up there for we’ve moved for three years without any redirect anything. And so you have a million visits, you have 10s of thousands of customers, what do you think happened to those customers? Do you think those customers thought that was a gold was no longer available? Do you think that they knew who Ipswich was, because they decided we’re not going to call it old anymore, we’re going to call it Ipswich. We the company effectively killed their community because you have people that are users that like you fan girls, and fanboys, no matter what. And it doesn’t matter if you have 100 people, or 1000 people, or a million people, they are your referrals there, your customers, they’re your prospects, those are those are people you don’t want to get rid of. So that

Dave Gerhardt 20:49
I mean, for us, it’s just about making making it easy. And so we care a lot about like, from from day one, I can’t tell you like how much we care about responding to every single person on social media. And how many companies do do that. Or when they do it, they feel the need to be like, Hello, thank you just I don’t know, like, just respond with like, an emoji thumbs up or something, it doesn’t, you don’t have to, you know, say something crazy. But I think that the sense of community comes from like, from responding to everyone, but also showing that you’re real and and then doing things to involve the community. So we do a lot of things where we give access to people first, like because they’re in the community, hey, you want to be the first to register for our event go here, it’s cheaper for you. You want to be the first to get the book you want to be the first to get something that HubSpot did a great job of is getting customers and partners into product launches early and say, Hey, you can do this now. And so I think the other thing is community people want to see, like, especially in marketing for me, they want to know what other marketers are doing. And so community is like, how do you take this peer group and expose that, and I almost have nothing to do with with what they’re selling. Like in jeans example, probably wasn’t even always product specific. But it’s like, I’m a marketer, these are other marketers, you guys should talk. And then they realized that the connection that they have is the company

Jessica Meher 21:59
that’s all great. So I think maybe the only thing to add is we think about community also as giving a platform for our community, for our customer, to show our customers as their best selves, and to help make them famous within the community. So we focus a lot on co creating content with our customers and our partners, throwing events, putting them on stage, trying to get them speaking slots at some of the big bigger events in the industry. So we think about how do we not only bring the industry and the community together, but to elevate that community

Jodi Petrie 22:30
switching gears a little bit, you work with startups about as an angel investor, things like that. What’s in the DNA of a good marketer? What is when you go to the startups and you’re looking at the team? And you say, all right, they’ve got it, what does every marketer need to have what it is you’re looking at it?

Jessica Meher 22:47
Okay, well, so my. So my advice on that is be really obsessed with learning, not about title. I think a lot of marketers, especially earlier in their career, get some, like, distracted and obsessed about the next promotion or the next title, instead of how do I just learn as much as much as possible, and how do I make a big impact in what I’m doing. So we talked a lot about t shaped marketers, which is having a cross discipline about across different topics, and also getting really in depth experience in each topic. So that you’re not only a generalist, and that you not only have experience in one thing. So I focus a lot of my earlier career being a T shaped marketer. And that’s what I tell a lot of marketers if they want to grow in their career to focus on that. I think

Dave Gerhardt 23:29
the thing that I think the thing that separates most people today is the is the doing from the actual, like, it’s so every, I think, because of LinkedIn. Now, everybody, most 99% of marketers resumes look good, right? I was at this company, I was at that company. But that doesn’t actually mean they actually did the work. And so the thing that like, I would look for an early stage marketing hire is somebody who has actually done the work. And I think a lot about like, in this example, use my story, my resume would not have been, it would not have stood out to anybody. I had this little side project where I figured out how to start a podcast, I had a newsletter, I had a website, I sold sponsorships. And so because I had that, I had to figure out all those things on my own. And that’s what they saw in me was like, oh, if he knows how to do that, he hasn’t done it on a company level. But he might be able to do it here. And so when you’re interviewing somebody, you can get a I think marketing is too hard today, if you’re not actually passionate about marketing, it’s too hard to be any good at it. And so that means maybe, and it doesn’t have to be specific to your day job. But it might mean you love writing and you write books on the weekends, or you love social media. And you have like, there’s somebody in the marketing team at drift he has an office fan page that has like a million fans of it great, I’d hire that guy over and over again because he obviously knows something about getting attention so I think it’s like looking beyond especially in the early days you’re going to make the mistake of trying to hire to senior person who doesn’t who’s not going to be a right match for your stage of the company but then you’re also going to be frustrated because like I can’t find a person that’s Junior enough to do the job so I would look for somebody who’s done something on the side has a blog does videos has a podcast has a newsletter whatever

Jeanne Hopkins 24:59
so you’re getting the nights and weekends projects kind of a thing you know what, what really interests you so I’ve in the past five months, I’ve reviewed 400 resumes for marketing all star at Lola calm and there’s only been a very small percentage that I’ve been put through the you know, video screen and even fewer to come into the office and even fewer that have actually made the cut. I was lucky enough through referrals and different things. Somebody that had worked for me before different things to be able to stand up a team of seven people in about 45 days. But it was all from the network right. So now I’m looking to be able to add to it. The number one thing that I find that one of the reasons I disconnect from people is they haven’t even well It drives me crazy when they can’t spell HubSpot. It’s a capital it’s the capital S okay. But the second thing is they haven’t bothered to take three classes from HubSpot to become inbound marketing certified or anything having to do with HubSpot. And so we are 100% HubSpot shop except for our drift implementation. But I think that the one thing that I like to look for and because I’ve run sales and marketing teams, and I’m all about the alignment between sales and marketing is to get some sales experience as a marketer until you’ve carried a bag until you’ve had a quote on your head. If you don’t have sales experience, you just don’t get it. You know, you don’t have that degree of empathy. Because I I have done sales, but I much prefer doing marketing and I would rather have sales report to me, but they they have to repeat lather, rinse, repeat, lather, rinse, repeat, in order for them to be successful in scale, they have to have a playbook they have to have a way that they’re doing the demo, they have to have the right closing conversations. They need all this stuff in order to do it over and over again and that’s what’s made HubSpot successful. So, trying to build that and I feel that the marketer the random marketer that I ever come across, that has sales experience becomes a good product marketer becomes a good sales enablement person becomes a good content person to deliver the right kind of materials to help the sales people sell. Because ultimately it’s about customers, right.

Dave Gerhardt 27:08
I was not to put not to put you on the spot. But somebody of your team now, Connor Connor so. So in turn on genes team now he was an internet drift in sales, and then was an intern and drift and customer success. And then like, he was like, hey, Dave, I think I want to learn marketing, can I be on your team for three months? I was like, hell yeah. And I don’t know, I my guess is Jean probably loves him, because he can do everything. And he’s an incredible marketer now, and, and I think the best marketers are also, you know, super well rounded to that point. So

Jodi Petrie 27:35
you’ve got the sort of DNA of the person you describe what went into my thought was, my head was, does that person even exist, you know, and how hard they’ve been for you to find. And is that part of your ability to scale reliant on finding those.

Jeanne Hopkins 27:49
So I’ve probably seen 100 resumes from people that are running social media for their company, and they post things to LinkedIn. And and I think to myself, that’s not a job. That’s like something you do for five. And I always tell people in social media, it’s important. So we’re all here. I’m taking pictures. I’m doing the social media thing. But that’s not my full time job. And if you’re a social media person, I want to see I want to see video I want to see written blogs. I want to see the nights and weekends projects I want to see what have you done over and above? What are you really interested in, I don’t care that you post to LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, it has like no interest for me at all. There’s a million of you out there and then they don’t have any HubSpot experience. They don’t have any experience with a tool that allows them to go faster and do more. And I can see that’s why people want a new job. I just wish that they in their current environment, they had that chance,

Jessica Meher 28:50
one theme. And that too, is marketers who are driven toward making an impact and having results. And that’s where the sales marketing comes into play, where the marketers just super we’re passionate about wanting to help the salesperson, like hit their quota. And that’s a really great skill to have. And I remember Volpi always says that if I see your resume, and the only numbers that are on it is your phone number. Like that’s a bad thing. Like you actually want to show metrics and results in what you’re actually like, how you’re working on stuff is actually like improving something. Yeah, let me ask you this. One other question? I think we winding up you mentioned the trends earlier what’s the trend you really wish would go away? Is there something you can think of that you know I go back to that creating a moment I hear that a lot let’s create a moment and I sort of wish that would disappear Is there a trend that you see the one that’s really quick and that is people stop calling ABM ABM, I just call it like, good marketing selling. Yeah,

Dave Gerhardt 29:48
I hate the trend. So I use LinkedIn more than anybody. I love LinkedIn. I hate the trend of like, when people just mass tag 30 people in a thing. And they’re like, you know, so I want to get your attention. I’m going to talk about blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, at gene Hopkins address Mary thoughts. Like,

Don’t tag me in that please. Like, I don’t, you know, there’s just no value. There’s no value in doing that. I hate that. That’s, that’s like the new version of spam.

Jeanne Hopkins 30:14
I guess what bothers me is how inward focused so many so much communication is, it’s like, I care about me, my name is this is blah, blah, blah. Instead of what can I do to help you? What can I do it? I wish people would just kind of turn around that so that we would have a little bit more servant leadership. I would like it. I rarely get people say to me, what can I do to help you? What can I do? I get people that say, I want 15 minutes of your time. Well, if I gave 15 minutes of my time to everybody that wants 15 minutes of my time, I would get absolutely Well, first of all, I couldn’t do that. So I always loved the cup of coffee thing. I don’t drink coffee. So, you know, people ask me for a cup of coffee. And it’s a it’s an automatic know, for me, and I it’s not intentional, but it’s sort of like, really, you want my time? What, what? What’s the, what are you going to do? Are you gonna make a donation of my name to somebody, you know, do something, right?

Right? And I don’t drink coffee.

Dave Gerhardt 31:07
I don’t drink coffee.

Right? And then there’s, what do you drink,

Jeanne Hopkins 31:13
right? I know, but it’s it. I just wish that there were a way I don’t mind connecting with people. I really don’t. I just don’t connect with me, and then try to sell me in the next sentence. It Yeah, even say that in my profile, I’ll connect with you. I’m always interested in doing that. But don’t say, can I have 15 minutes of downtime to had to be able to do a demo event that, that that that the band

Dave Gerhardt 31:34
and I

Jeanne Hopkins 31:35
used to when as soon as somebody did that, I would go in and I would connect with them disconnect, disconnect and connect, disconnect, right? remove them from my network, but I don’t have the time to do that anymore. So I just ignore, ignore, ignore. And that’s, I think that’s what bothers me the most is like, talk about something else that is going to interest you know, I’m interested in children’s theatre. I’m interested in other things. And as I’m not interested in listening to your ABM proposal, because

the other thing too, is how often people reach out and use cats against me, because I know I have my cat thing. And so they’re like, I love cats, too. And I’m like, that’s not a reason to connect. You’re looking for a purposeful, human authentic

Dave Gerhardt 32:19
connection. And it’s, it’s so easy today, because so much information, especially for doing marketing is available online. Just have to use it smarter than being like, Hello, Jess, I also have a cat like,

Jodi Petrie 32:29
do the work. You want them to do the work. Last question for me brand, and B to B to see girl. But you you do whatever you think.

Dave Gerhardt 32:39
So I have one that you wouldn’t expect it’s glossier. Yes. Yeah.

Is that true, they had to put makeup on my forehead today for a video that we didn’t know. But, um, they do an amazing job of being real and authentic. And so like, if you go to their if you go to their homepage, the homepage is instead of having pictures, models wearing their products. It’s literally like, you know, Jessica em from Boston. And it’s her Instagram. And so they have this like, community of like, people are then posting pictures of their products. And then it’s an amazing feeling, because it will never happen to me. But it’s an amazing feeling. Because then what happens if you post a picture on your Instagram? And then next thing, you know, you go to their website and you’re like, whoa, I’m on their homepage. And then they have this mission statement that is, like, we, you know, we want to show you real people because we’re real people just like you, you know, we don’t expect this to be bottle and just, it’s so authentic and real. And I think that is a lesson that can be applied to anything, but honestly, for me, and b2b, I hate looking at other b2b companies for examples because I think it does kind of cloud there’s definitely a set of best practices like I need to learn what genes doing it lol I need to learn what’s happening in HubSpot, all that stuff but like there is definitely like a little bit of bias towards like if you do whatever they’re doing. I’m super interested in in in b2c and in other types of companies

Jeanne Hopkins 33:54
well as a plus size person I like Ashley Graham I think she’s just done a marvelous job of connecting with

clothing lines and and not being afraid to just be out there and you know her Revlon makeup lines showed slope sold out in three hours and I’m I would much rather have her be something than a Kardashian or generally so and then so I guess my favorite brand might be the egg on Instagram so

Jessica Meher 34:24
genius well so this is this is a b2b one I really love what expensive I has been doing like I love their new video commercial I think it’s pretty baller and the reason that that one in particular is because they’re they’re adding a lot of sexiness to something that’s not very sexy which is very applicable to what kind of we do it notarized

Dave Gerhardt 34:42
know

Jessica Meher 34:45
well despite the budget you know, the idea is fun. So if I had the budget but I don’t know I kind of like what they’re doing and there’s offers there’s offers great to get

Jodi Petrie 34:54
fantastic. Alright,

Manny Veiga 34:57
thanks for listening to hacks and flacks. You can learn more about our agency or our show by visiting the marchcomms.calm that’s March co M M. s.com and don’t forget to subscribe to hacks and flacks so you can do that on iTunes or anywhere that you listen to podcasts that way you get the latest episode delivered straight to device every time that we come out thanks for listening I’m Manny Veiga will be back again real soon.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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